Transcript: Construction & Property Maintenance Code Board of Appeals Meeting

Chairman

Board of Appeals Wednesday, September 9th, August 28th.

Chairman

We have the agenda before you.

Chairman

I'll move for approval of the agenda.

Board Member

So moved.

Board Member 2

Second.

Chairman

Properly moved and seconded. Any question? All in favor signify by saying aye.

Board Member

Aye.

Chairman

Motion carries. We have, um, one item on our agenda, and that's, uh, C-009 property maintenance code violation, chapter three, general requirements, F302.1 sanitation, the address 747 and 747-A South State Street. With the representative here is Patty Downs.

Eddie Kopp

It's 774.

Patty Downs

Oh, that's a typo on there. That's different. We can go.

Speaker

We can go.

Patty Downs

I'm sorry.

Chairman

Okay. Let me cause, let me correct it, is 774, for the record, 774 and 774-A for correction, on South State Street. The representative, Patty Downs, is that correct? Who's present with us.

Patty Downs

Correct.

Chairman

Um, what I would do is turn it over to the court, for a representative from code enforcement to present.

Eddie Kopp

I can I can go. Um Eddie Kopp, chief code enforcement officer for the City of Dover. Um for the record before you uh I believe we're at a interpretation issue. This case is the interpretation of what is considered junk and debris. Um code enforcement's stance on it is the materials listed in the photographs is uh junk and debris. It is our interpretation it's junk and debris. Um and speaking with the homeowner Ms. Patty Downs, she disagrees with that interpretation, and we're before you today for the board to make the inter- uh interpretation whether the items on the property is considered junk and debris or

Board Member

I can't access those pictures on mine.

Chairman

Um, can you go back to the pictures for those who may not have had a chance to look?

Speaker

Are they behind us?

Chairman

They're behind us.

Speaker

Where?

Board Member

No, it's not. That's what's off with it.

Chairman

No?

Eddie Kopp

Uh, no.

Chairman

No.

Eddie Kopp

Yeah, I'm not sure. But, uh--

Speaker

That one does not show it.

Chairman

Okay. There you go.

Speaker

Got it. Alright.

Chairman

Can you please confer back to Ms. Downs? Okay.

Patty Downs

All right.

Speaker

There you go.

Eddie Kopp

I'll page through the photos from here.

Board Member

You want to pass those around? Why should you be doing that?

Chairman

It's, it's yours, Ms., Ms. Downs.

Patty Downs

Oh, okay. Well, these are screen doors, which I do use. They just didn't get on this year. I had, uh, surgery and really wasn't released from my doctor until like the end of July to be able to lift things, and didn't get a lot of things done this summer.

Patty Downs

Um, these are things that I'm going to be using for my house. But we are actually for sale, waiting, awaiting a contract that, an offer that we were given in July 4th. And, um, they just called me the other, um, yesterday and said they're still working on their financing, commercial financing, and they want all the materials. So these are all the materials,

Patty Downs

believe it or not.

Patty Downs

We are slowly getting rid of our personal items, such as our tools and wheelbarrows slowly, so that we have room to maybe move things in our garage, because it was all full of appliances for, you know, an emergency if they needed them. But my, my surgery was the 1st of April, and then I had a lot of complications. So, I could not deal with this.

Chairman

Is there no, you don't have a garage or anything?

Patty Downs

We do. That is the garage. That is, this is the garage.

Chairman

Oh, okay.

Patty Downs

Yep, that's the garage.

Mr. Downs

Well, the, here, take a look. The garage was full until two weeks ago.

Patty Downs

We had a 12-year tenant that lived in our house.

Mr. Downs

And rented.

Patty Downs

And he was there for, uh, almost 12 years. And he, the shop, we let him have the shop. And, um, in the last couple years he was 87. And, um, I really couldn't bother him to move his things out, because he passed away. And his daughter didn't take care of the things.

Mr. Downs

No, we didn't bother him.

Patty Downs

So, there we were caught in that dilemma, and he became family. She became family, so I didn't want to pressure her during that period. So, as we have slowly moved out his things, which we are now, we've been doing for the last month, we will have more room to slip things inside.

Chairman

Uh, but you said you had, uh, you're selling the property?

Patty Downs

Yes.

Chairman

Because there's two addresses associated with it.

Patty Downs

This is This is a five-unit property.

Chairman

Okay.

Patty Downs

So, uh, there are four buildings.

Chairman

Okay. And all four of them are being sold?

Patty Downs

Yes, it's one parcel.

Chairman

It's one parcel. Okay. Multiple units, okay.

Patty Downs

I wish you'd let me keep some of it, but then I'd have to come in here and talk to you about that, because I don't want to move. But I can't take care of all this anymore.

Chairman

Um, and when is the contract being signed?

Patty Downs

We don't know. They're They're still struggling with the financing. She just called me yesterday. They've been trying.

Mr. Downs

I have an MOU that we signed that states that the seller is to remove any items that are not furniture or building materials. But we, we don't know what

Patty Downs

They want

Mr. Downs

They want the

Patty Downs

even the furniture.

Mr. Downs

They want the metal, and they want the See, those are salt-treated two-by-fours.

Patty Downs

And that plywood looks ricketty, but it is salt-treated, and I keep it on top of the um materials that were left over from the roofing and um decking. Board decking.

Mr. Downs

And we're just And we're just to clean out that garage.

Patty Downs

The two-by-fours are also treated.

Patty Downs

The screens on the side, believe it or not, I I use those for uh squirrels and rabbits not to go in the garage, but still to have airflow. I stick it in the doorway portable, and I didn't get all my screen doors on this year.

Board Member

Okay.

Patty Downs

I usually take them down because they're in the way when in the winter.

Mr. Downs

The ply- The plywood on top is on the metal, it's uh it's it's old, but it's to keep the metal from blowing away, and plus

Patty Downs

It's to And to keep the sun off of the uh salt-treated, so it won't go all curl macaroni. Yes.

Charles Martin

Uh this Charles Martin, um I guess my question would be at this point, could you in the next 30 days get those materials now inside the garage so they're not visible?

Patty Downs

Well, is it a problem to have them visible? They are materials that we use for lawns, for, you know, for for lawn and for decking um to replace if I need You know, like a lumber yard keeps theirs outside, but I have to keep it covered so the sun won't hit it.

Patty Downs

Otherwise, again, so what I do is the metal goes on top of the salt-treated, and then the plywood goes on top of that, so that it doesn't blow.

Charles Martin

If If you put it in the garage, you wouldn't have to worry about blowing.

Patty Downs

And then we can't walk, because it's it's It is So there is a problem to keep building materials outside and decking for lawn?

Board Member 2

Mr. Chairman.

Chairman

Chair recognizes Councilman Rocha.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Yeah. So the only, and correct me if I'm wrong, uh, Eddie, when there's construction going on and there's a permit on the property, then those materials would be, it would be understood that it would be used for the construction inside or whatever. But to just have them laying around outside is, is not normal to me.

Patty Downs

This is a This is outside materials. It's for roofing.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Yeah, but, I mean--

Patty Downs

It's for deckings.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Okay. Well, if you're asking for my interpretation, and I think my voice counts in this situation, that's that's not normal to me.

Chairman

President Neil.

Gerald L. Rocha, Sr.

Unless you had a permit and you were Well, making upgrades and things of that nature.

Mr. Downs

If we weren't selling, I I'd I'd say yeah, but the people who are going to buy it are going to use those materials. And probably within, we should be signing a contract, because they're going through the refinancing process right now, and they we should be coming up with something within 30 days, probably. Maybe 60 days.

Patty Downs

He's sold properties.

Charles Martin

So you've been negotiating for 60 days at this point?

Patty Downs

We aren't negotiating anything. They are trying to get financing. It's It Evidently, it's extremely difficult right now.

Mr. Downs

Commercial Commercial properties. And they already have other properties and their

Andre M. Boggerty

deny the appeal. What what what does the

Board Member 2

So that that could be at the pleasure of the board. If you um if you set a date, a compliance by date, which would be my recommendation, um that you give a set amount of time to maintain compliance before enforcement action will be resumed.

Andre M. Boggerty

Okay. As long as they As long as they file on appeal, we hold we stop all enforcement action until--

Andre M. Boggerty

So So, just for clarity, if we deny the appeal and we say they have to comply within 30 days, or enforcement action resuming. But, and then hearing what they're saying, they're they have a pending sale within the 30 days. So that could be the wind win?

Appellant Female

Well, fact is still, these are materials, though. They're not junk and debris. They're not--

Board Member 2

They're items that should go in the garage.

Appellant Female

Well, roofing can't fit in there. It's it's 12-ft long I mean it's long, it's sharp.

Andre M. Boggerty

Well, but I I mean, I if you hear what I'm saying, I'm definitely trying to work, but, again, you you utilized the scenario of a um of a of a yard of a um not junkyard, but a uh um

Appellant Female

The back of our garage.

Appellant Male

Lumberyard.

Andre M. Boggerty

A of a lumber a lumberyard and and this is not a lumberyard.

Appellant Female

Well, I'm not selling it, I'm just simply saying this is not junk and debris.

Andre M. Boggerty

Well, I'm trying to find a way, but at the end but the truth of the matter is it is it is materials that's I I get it as an individual who had property before, if I saw a door or a sink on sale, I did it, but I would store it somewhere, especially at Lowe's, the scratch and dent area, uh you know, Tommy up, right, to to get that. However, it it still can't be it it still can't be um displayed in a way like it's displayed, um unfortunately, because you have neighbors to the left and to the right, I'm sure.

Appellant Female

Doctor's offices.

Andre M. Boggerty

Yeah, but they're still they're still neighbors nonetheless, and um we still have a responsibility to make sure uh you know, we put our best foot forward. So, at the So, what I So, there's I I'm going to say this, while we while one man's trash is another man's treasure, in in by definition according to this, it is, you know, might not be junk, but it's debris, you know. I don't want to, you know, call what you what's what's good to you junk, but you it's it's so it's debris, it's things that are pending usage, but not being used and there's no timeline to say it's going to be used, nor there's a permit in place to say that work is going to take place. So, I get it from a business perspective, but from this perspective, it's what it is. Uh, I'll let you all decide to go ahead.

Board Member 3

Okay. Does that stuff the materials, does that transfer with the property?

Appellant Female

That's they they have it in writing, they want it.

Board Member 3

Okay.

Appellant Female

They want all the materials.

Appellant Male

Do you want to see-- No, we just They show us stuff. Yeah.

Board Member 3

So, what's going to happen then is, if it's not moved and it transfers to them, they're going to get cited.

Appellant Female

Well, they're planning to completely rehab. They already have said they will get a you will be getting a whole new young person who has more energy and healthier to be able to get this going.

Andre M. Boggerty

Uh well, then, you know, they will have to apply for a permit.

Appellant Female

Which they definitely are, if they

Board Member 4

How you there's

Appellant Female

Five.

Board Member 4

five different

Appellant Female

one-bedroom one-bedroom apartments. Four buildings.

Board Member 4

And you say there are no tenants in the in any of them?

Appellant Female

Not right this minute.

Appellant Male

Well, no, that's not Airbnb. Airbnb, we have, yeah, like for the concert coming up, we have bookings.

Appellant Female

Right, we we're advertised. We are actively advertised.

Board Member 4

Okay. I was going to say if there's no room in the garage, then put stuff in one of these other units. The the problem is that it doesn't look good. And although that's quality materials to you that you might use somewhere down the future, it it has a negative impact, even if it's a doctor's office next to you, that it it doesn't look good. And that's the problem that we're faced with.

Andre M. Boggerty

So, uh

Appellant Female

Well, we have a request.

Board Member 2

I just want to I just want to point out two things. Um first is even if the property were to sell, it does not resolve the violation, the violation just transfers. Um so, the violation doesn't go away. It's against the property, not the owner. Um second, I know we're there's a lot of conversation around junk and debris, so the code says, "Controls in a clean and sanitary condition." So, I guess a better ask of the board was, do you believe that this property is being controlled in a clean and sanitary condition with the materials that are present on the property? So, we're just taking junk and debris out of it and using it the straight definition from the from the book.

Board Member 3

Okay. We're sort of getting round around the axle a little bit, a lot of bit. Here's my resolution, give them 30 days to clean it up and then if it's not done in 30 days, then they get so far.

Andre M. Boggerty

So, that means that So, what in essence, we would deny the appeal and then with the with the caveat of giving them 30 days to clean that up. Is that what I hear you saying?

Board Member 3

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Andre M. Boggerty

Okay, so you're ready for it? So, that's your motion?

Board Member 3

That's my motion.

Andre M. Boggerty

Okay, can I get a second?

Board Member 5

I second the question.

Andre M. Boggerty

Okay, so a second to the motion. And who was that? Dr. Pillsbury?

Board Member 5

Question. Um so, it sounds to me like you want to pass this on to the buyer. Is that correct? Right. If we give you a 30-day extension, is that enough time, in other words?

Appellant Female

We would like at least 60.

Appellant Male

And that that that's only because that's only because we're going to ask for 60 days before settlement,

Appellant Female

which we have to remove all of our personal things out of there at our age. We've waited too long.

Andre M. Boggerty

So, so we can add the caveat that if you present the fact that you have a closing date during the 30 days--

Appellant Female

Well, we aren't going to let them close in 30 days because--

Appellant Male

I can show him Right. a contract Right. for 30 days. Right.

Andre M. Boggerty

that that's the time closing day

Board Member 2

Um just a caution, there is no provision or exemption in code that would dictate the sale of a property um to halt any kind of compliance or violation resolution.

Appellant Female

Well, we're just requesting 60 days simply because we're removing lots of things.

Board Member 3

But not that particular bunch of stuff, mother. That stuff's still sitting there.

Appellant Female

Well, they requested it, that's all. And we're still removing our old A gentleman that's passed away, we're still trying to remove his things.

Board Member 2

Um if best-case scenario here, so if you grant that enforcement resumes in 30 days uh if we see good-faith effort, you can always, since it's out of the appeal phase, you can always request an extension. Uh if there's good-faith effort on the property, uh the extension will be granted. If there's no sign that there's any work being done, the uh the extension request will be denied, a citation would be issued, and then you have the right to appeal again once that citation is issued. So, if you're any point along this process, if you feel like we're being unfair, we're interpreting something different, um or that you're making progress that we're not seeing, you always have the right to appeal. Okay. But it takes the next action from Code Enforcement. So, if if the decision is made today to resume enforcement in 30 days, that just means we can uh continue with the case. However, in that 30 days, as long as you're making progress, you can grant or you can request an extension. We're willing to work with you. It's when all work stops, that's when we have to uh do our job, per se. Does that Hope hopefully that helps.

Appellant Male

Yeah, and and you know, and we did make I mean you can tell maybe you can't tell, we did make some effort with some of the materials. We're we're trying to keep a little bit of good

Board Member 2

Once once it's in the appeal process, unfortunately, Code Enforcement can't take any action. So, once it's in the appeal it's until the appeal is resolved, we can't extend, we can't we can't do anything. So, once the appeal is resolved, we can we can um look at that.

Appellant Female

Sadly, it's just sadly when you've got a piece of a roofing like that uh and you and you put it in a garage, you can't move. It takes up all the space. You can't hang it, you can't It's flat roofing metal.

Board Member 4

I'd like to call for the question.

Andre M. Boggerty

Yeah, there uh that was my next thing. There's been it's uh the question there has been a call for the question. Again, just for the record, it is to deny the appeal. And 30 days extension.